Monday, 29 June 2009
Pulled Post
If anyone is wondering what happened to the post I removed it. I am sorry to have to had to do this as I believed it was a valuable debate that could have been had with charity and objectivity as individuals are challenged about their decisions in the public realm when coming into communion with the See of Peter. I am completely confident in my decision to become a Catholic and will happily write what I hope to be encouraging posts about the theology underlying my decision and the joy I experience at being a Catholic and many other topics including issues in apologia of my move. The Holy Father encouraged the Internet and blogs to be used for the evangelisation of the Catholic Faith and this blog aims to be a positive contribution for that cause.
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18 comments:
It's a pity you pulled that post as it was a fine contribution to the debate. I hope you were not bullied or coerced into doing so. The Internet is a world forum and currently one of the best places to air views that help people to understand what the pursuit of conscience and truth involves. God be with you.
Fr. Steele, My heart goes out to you. As a Protestant who loves the ancient faith, I can understand why you swam the Tiber. However, as you've discovered the Tiber has a few sharks in it. It's one of the reasons I'm happy to stay in the Protestant (Presbyterian) faith. It seems there are as many factions or differing opinions on ecclesiology and theology in the Catholic Church as there are in Protestantism. There are no end of hounds nipping at your heals regardless if you are Catholic or Anglican or whatever. My prayers for you as you go forward in your integrity. Trust our Lord to guide you into the truth,and yes, our Lady to be at your side. I'm one of those few Protestants who love Mary and believe she is constantly in our corner. So hang in there, and you'll have my prayers for you.
Rich
Is it not possible that the sharks are actually from the wrong side of the Tiber, ie Mr Steele's former colleagues. I know just how it feels .... They can't cope with those who take the plunge and are made to feel awkward by the courage and conviction that folk like the Steele's show. God bless them. The CofE knows it's in trouble - it's like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Sorry to say it - but we all think it!
No doubt Maurice. I'm sure there are a ton of teeth from the CofE that are just waiting to chew him up. However, from personal experience of interaction with numerous Catholic groups, I've found there are a ton of jaws to bite there too. If you don't toe the line on one law, there's another from the other side of the fence to claw at you. Traditionalists, Orthodox, Liberals, NeoCatholics, you name it all claiming to be adhering to the majesterium. My head is often spinning after encounters with some of these folks on forums like Catholic Answers. I love the Catholic church, don't get me wrong. I love the liturgy, the Pope,(he's a genius) the history. So for Fr. Steele. Stick with what your doing and wear iron britches.
I agree that there are those who may attack in Catholic Churches as everywhere else! My problem is that I want to swim the Tiber but cannot find an orthodox Catholic Priest anyplace near me in central New Jersey. Quite literally, every priest I have found to talk to has been a progressive liberal who admit to being un-orthodox. What do I do? I have an Eastern Orthodox friend who tells me to come to them....they have never changed, Rome has! This is VERY frustrating and it causes me to wonder if Rome is the right place. You would think if it was God would lead me to a priest who could guide me.
ANY ADVICE?
Timotheus
Remember your faith is not in any one particular priest and his views but the truth of the Catholic Church. That is what you embrace not those who do not live by their vows. Embrace the truth no matter what individuals may say.
RichnHim
I only came to look again at this site to see if Jeffrey Steel had received the support he deserves. Your comments are some of the most generous, edifying and spiritual that I have read in any combox and will have done much to strengthen him and his family. Your integrity is shining.
But I have to agree with Maurice. Nastiness is to be found in all Christian settings but the nastiest I have found lies within the dwindling Anglo-Catholic remnant. It is nastiness in a different degree from the varied views of many Catholics today. Yes, divisions based on private judgment exist but the core of the Catholic Church is not only true and healthy but integral and nothing can make it otherwise.
Anglo-Catholics belong to a body that no longer has a strong core beyond factional preference. When anybody leaves to embrace the fullness of truth found in Rome those left behind, but principally the clergy, are threatened and cheap disdane and abuse is the usual weapon employed.
There used to be solid Anglo-Catholics who had as much integrity and holiness as you but they are now few and far between, if they exist at all. Such people no longer find nourishment on the thin soil that is left.
Dear Father - If I may be so bold - as seemingly others have been - please re-post the article?! I found it most interesting and utterly relevant to a proper debate about the situation of many who are thinking as you have done about communion with the Holy See.
Timotheus- try not to be focused on finding the 'right' priest. Trads are in no way more 'real Catholics' than others. Many people have a problem with this but accepting it and respecting authority is part of being Catholic. Being received into the church is just the first step. A lifetime of learning follows and I am certain that you will eventually find what you need. There are so many layers to our faith and normally it takes a while for things to sink in. (It really is like a culture shock for many people)Blogs and forums are a great source of information where you can learn a lot and get in touch with more traditional priests as well.
So my advice is to relax, find a priest and do what you obviously want to do. The rest will follow. Good luck!
Peter Porter
Surely what you have just written is just as nasty as what you claim about Anglo Catholics.
I think I will have to stop reading as I find this all very depressing
Nice, Peter. Just ignore Jeffrey's stated intention in this entry, letting this degenerate to petty recrimination which Fr Steel said was not effective.
Anonymous,
If God is calling you to His Church, don't let any human being stand in your way! I came in through a very liberal RCIA program -- hard to take, but 6 years later I am so glad!
I am a Roman Catholic who has recently swum the Tiber myself. I am sorry that the Steels have faced so much opposition and criticism in their decision. They are much remembered in my prayers. However, I must speak up for Anglo- Catholics. There are still many solid Anglo-Catholics of faith and integrity who are facing quite a number of sharks of their own. They should also be remembered in the prayers of those waiting for them on the other side of the river.
Richeldis.
Dear Jeffrey,
as one of your former brethren in SSC I also think that it is a shame you felt that the post needed to be pulled. It seemed to to me that it was neither offensive of quarrelsome, but was responding in a measured way to some of the critique given of your own journey. For all anglicans who desire unity with the See of Peter there is an inevitable debate about the way in which that unity is achievable. Newman's questions still remain as a challenge to us (particularly the fact that the Fathers we claim to be in communion with among the saints would have no doubt seen us as schismatics) as does the passage in Lumen Gentium you referred to. [I think that the status of the two Vatican Councils is an important of largely undressed issue for us. At the very least they must, I believe, be considered General Councils of the Western Church, which means we have to take such passages as that you quoted with the utmost seriousness.] Newman made a similar point in his Apologia. "This I am sure of, that nothing but a simple direct call of duty is a warrant for any one leaving our Church; no preference for another CHurch, no delight in its services, no hope of greater religious advancement in it, no indignation, no disgust, at the persons and things, among which we may find ourselves in the Church of England. The simple question is, Can I (it is personal, not whether another, but can I) be saved in the English Church? am I in safety, were I to die tonight? Is it a mortal sin in me, not joining another communion." These are serious questions and we need have no fear of honest debate about them. The discussion which you were raising (or indeed had been raised for you as you were in part responding to specific critique) about the personal or the ecclesial solution to the lack of communion with the Holy See (which as I see it is the key question here rather than specific issues of sexuality, ordination etc) is an important one. As I said I found nothing offensive in your discussion of it, and like previous posters would be happy for it to be reposted.
Dear Father Robin,
Thank you very much for your kind words. I have written the new post in a different light without calling into the argument specific people. They can say as they wish.
Timotheus,
Contact St. Catherine's in Middletown. They are quite orthodox and offer the traditional Latin Mass, as well. If nothing else, the pastor will be able to direct you further.
I'm a Timothy, too, by the way!
You're in my prayers.
Timotheus,
When I finally realized at the end of Trinity season last year that the Catholic Church simply *was* the Church, and that I therefore needed to swim the Tiber, I had some of the same concerns as you have expressed about how to find a priest who I knew would be orthodox. By God's grace, he led me to an FSSP parish, and the instruction I received, leading to my reception on the Feast of St. Mark, was a great blessing and encouragement to me. The Dcn who instructed me is a very holy man (since ordained Priest himself on the Vigil of Pentecost) as is the Fr., and both in their teaching and preaching, and in the Liturgy and in their life with the parish they radiate the blessedness and joy of the Christian way of sanctification. I cannot begin to express my gratitude to these holy Priests, and to God for having so faithfully guided this wandering soul out of the desert and into the sheepfold of the Great Shepherd.
I don't know how close you are to Pequannock, New Jersey, but there is an FSSP work there, and if my experience is any guide, it would lead me to recommend contacting someone there. I know there are faithful Novus Ordo priests and parishes too, but when one is coming as an outsider seeking instruction, it is not easy at all to know where one can go to find them. My experience in the FSSP is that they are simply faithful, orthodox Catholics - they are not schismatic or "Vatican-II-haters" and are very supportive of the Pope and the local Bishop. Also, I was very blessed at my reception to be allowed to use the complete Tridentine formula for reception of a Protestant, which I found to be much fuller, and richer, and more specific, and therefore more meaningful than the greatly condensed (but equally valid) version used in the Novus Ordo reception of a Protestant.
In any case, know that I will pray for you, commending to our Blessed Mother Mary's powerful intercession your journey into full communion with the See of Peter!
Pax Christi,
Jeff Holston
Thanks everyone regarding my desire to swim the Tiber. I have recently spoken with some very encouraging priests and this has been a blessing. Keep me in prayer as this will mean a HUGE change and serious life issues to consider. In the end....Christ is always faithful!!
Timotheus
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