Thursday, 10 January 2008

Hermeneutics and Ecclesiology: A Question for Fr. Kennedy

By Fr. Jeffrey Steel

I have a tendency to agree with the questions that Fr. Matt Kennedy raises in his recent post over at StandFirm. What I do not understand is why he does not see the correlation between the hermeneutics applied in SS unions to those applied in allowing for women's ordination. Must the Church revisit Nicaea every time some modern group goes around using a C19 bankrupt hermeneutic to justify women's ordination? Must we blatantly deny the teaching of Holy Scripture and Tradition on this issue every time we want to push the egalitarian argument for the novelty of this practice? These questions are not to be rude to Fr. Matt and I ask them here so that I do not get banned for bringing it up there on StandFirm as an issue off topic. But, that is the question, isn't it? Isn't the question of hermeneutics the same in both instances? If not, can we be shown the hermeneutics for the one issue of SSU and that of Women's Ordination and how they differ? Fr. Matt writes,
Must the Church "reconsider" Nicea every time a false teacher with a following arises advocating a new form of Arianism or Docetism? Must the Church "reconsider" the Resurrection, the Virgin birth, and the Ascension simply because some modern day gnostics employing bankrupt 19th century hermeneutics suggest that these events did not occur?

Of course not. So why must we be open to the reconsideration of a teaching just as firmly articulated in scripture and affirmed in Tradition as those named above?

In any case, the question that I have been meaning to ask--the one I mentioned above--arises because it seems that one necessary if implicit assertion of the position articulated above is this: The Canterbury centered Anglican Communion has the authority to revisit and overturn the established apostolic doctrine of the Church universal.
OK! Fair questions! Why is this not also a fair question to ask those who support women's ordination? Are not these "discrepancies" between the two issues a result of the nominalistic affects of the sacramental theology and ecclesial ordinances of Anglicanism which are shaped within a cultured ambiguity? What does priesthood mean to Fr. Kennedy? Is it anything more than a descriptive term? Is there any insistence upon any theological content? These are serious questions posed here and not ones simply to stir Fr. Kennedy. I ask them in sincerity. More imortantly I ask this question to Fr. Matt and those who share his view of WO? Is the Anglican Communion THE Church so that it can go ahead with issues like this on its own?
Would these conservatives accept this ruling against WO, coming unanimously from the Church Catholic, as definitive and seek to conform themselves to it or would they continue to resist Catholic teaching believing it to be in error?

Comments on "Hermeneutics and Ecclesiology: A Question for Fr. Kennedy"

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10 January 2008 15:58) : 

Fr. Jeffrey,

Your questions are not rude at all and I would consider them "on topic" at SF. In any case, I think I have already answered your last question in a number of recent articles. The answer is yes. Anne has committed to surrender her collar were the CCP or the next orthodox body that emerges from the structure of the CCP to rule that it is necessary.

I do think that Evangelicals and Catholics come to these questions employing different measures. You are right to note that the sacramental question is not primary to evangelicals. At the same time there are many, most in fact, who reject WO on scriptural grounds, with Tradition echoing in their hearts as well.

I would also suggest that if the sacramental question is not primary in evangelical considerations, then it tends not to be considered an "essential" question in the sense that even many who reject WO do see some biblical room for argument.

Personally, I have come to the point where I believe WO should be ended on biblical grounds. I think those who are currently ordained ought to be the last. I used to hold to a limited WO position...ie women could be ordained but not fill headship roles (rector or bishop etc).

Now, I think that position is flawed. I do not know what authority or role women ought to hold in the Church, but I no longer have confidence that ordained presbyter is one of them.

What am I going to do about that? I continue to believe it is not an essential matter but now that I think I see the matter in a different light Anne and I have some things to think through together and we are presently doing that.

Thanks for your article.

Matt

 

Blogger Fr. Jeffrey said ... (10 January 2008 16:04) : 

Thanks Fr. Matt! What more can one say...You've answered my questions and my prayers are for you and Anne. God bless you all in your journey together. I only pray you all stay Anglican in the very least. Your recent arguments are quite Catholic and for those I am very grateful. Thank you for responding.

 

Blogger Fr. Jeffrey said ... (10 January 2008 16:10) : 

Fr. Matt, I also meant to say how much I appreciate your humility in being willing to admit where you admit that positions once held can be flawed. How we should all display such humility before God and the Church! I too have had to admit many former views flawed and wrong that I held very strongly. Thanks be to God for his patience with me!

 

Blogger Truth Unites... and Divides said ... (10 January 2008 17:54) : 

Personally, I have come to the point where I believe WO should be ended on biblical grounds. I think those who are currently ordained ought to be the last. I used to hold to a limited WO position...ie women could be ordained but not fill headship roles (rector or bishop etc).

Now, I think that position is flawed. I do not know what authority or role women ought to hold in the Church, but I no longer have confidence that ordained presbyter is one of them.

What am I going to do about that? I continue to believe it is not an essential matter but now that I think I see the matter in a different light Anne and I have some things to think through together and we are presently doing that.


Dear Matt+, I echo Fr. Jeffrey's sentiments of gratefulness and deep appreciation for your humility before God and Church in admitting that your previous views on LWO were mistaken on biblical grounds.

Your transformation on this issue is an answer to many prayers, mine included.

P.S. You might not be aware of this, but I came out of lurking status on Stand Firm last year just to participate in the 2nd thread of the monster WO discussion (600 comments+) and to biblically argue against WO.

So your theological movement on this issue is a matter of great rejoicing. And of great appreciation to you. And of great appreciation to God for ... everything!

God bless you and Anne.

Pax in Christ Alone,

Truth Unites... and Divides

 

Blogger Allen Lewis said ... (10 January 2008 18:21) : 

Matt -
I also am grateful for your change of heart on the issue of WO. At one point I was where you were - I did not think it that big of a deal. I have had to rethink my position and have reached the conclusion that WO is not a biblically supported practice. Nor is it theologically supported.

So welcome to the club! I had prayed that you would be honest enough to reconsider your position, and, obviously, you have done so.

Glory be to God!

Allen Lewis

 

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